* It is about power and control and until people in churches get this, they will be waaaaay behind the culture. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. There is more to this story. That is a huge red flag. So grateful for this much-needed emphasis this weekend. Bill Hy the Touchy Guy got himself into this and his elders proceeded to dig the hole deeper no devil required. And similarly for the individual when it is a corporation. FOUR YEARS!! I hope its okay to post. May 28, 2021 45 Dislike Share Benjamin Ady 56 subscribers At Willow Creek South Barrington's Congregational Meeting May 2021, with about 200 Core Committed members present, Senior pastor Dave. I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. See, here is the problem . They often wonder, Did that really just happen? What really just happened? Am I interpreting that correctly? How should I interpret it? etc., etc.. Is Lynne Hybels Still Married To Bill Yes. Dee, is Julie a new commenter here? This includes a majority Christian circle. Steve Carter (Hybels hand picked teaching pastor) was on staff with Rob Bell at Mars Hill EMERGENT Church. Shameful! Does Bill Hybel teach future pastors how to get their IT departments to have special deals? I have yet to ask these people what they think of all this. It is when people naively do not realize that everyone has an agenda, not to be cynical, that they fail to ask important questions and perform essential (to them!) And It creates an incredible amount of cognitive dissonance. NB If anything uncomfortable happens again I will be saying something clearly to him & asking him to mind his manners. No one walks away unascathed. I think Hybels and Billy Graham lost their beliefs somewhere along the way maybe they never really had them. Should Christians be carrying around tally sheets-How many did I lead to Christ this week? The invitation to the first Family Meeting stated in the first paragraph that this group wanted to damage the church and the senior pastor! Does this have any bearing on whether or not Bill Hybels was a sociopath, an abuser, a phony, a hypocrite, a philanderer? However, I am not going to let every Tom, Dick and Joe Salitas to copy and paste the letter into this comment section. I have Every year for many years OT once and NT twice- every year. Cant people be sincere and caring without all that? . Nothing more. Okay, now is my choice to reference David. I do not buy Hybels IT excuse for one second. but I know you dont have that set up. ) bugs me. He has denied. Most common reaction in the world. Some will walk away all together from their faith journey.. People said the same sort of things about us, people sneered at us, shunned us, surely said Whats wrong with this picture just like you did. Tysvm Dee. In 2019, a six-month-long independent review found all allegations against Bill credible. Dr George Simon Jr a clinical psychologist and writes about character disorder, manipulative personalities and malignant narcissism. @ Bea: Sounds like he at the time did some things that outside of context would be perceived as unwise with co-workers. By the time you get there, youve probably already been compromised yourself, youve supported a lot of evil things, youve shouted down others who were only trying to get at the truth (as I once did, alassorry, Adam, you were right and I was wrong, pastor really was up to no good), and its not easy to extricate yourself or your family. Read the Bible. I mentioned how I recently read of a church where the IT had a deal with pastor to delete specifically his e-mails I laugh and say fat chance I can get him to do that for me! Prestige of Willow Creek? Plausible deniability for Bill. manner, outline your thinking and why you believe it to be true. Certainly if Jodie is on staff currently, she needs her walking papers today! I will keep the website updated. I did this research a while back, so if Im remembering right, a few things I read indicated that the evidence destroyed/withheld would automatically be assumed to be against the legal case of those who destroyed/withheld it, and the jury was instructed that they were required to view the situation that way. That is a big part of the problem. I wonder if churches have convinced themselves of the same. Written in 1999! Paul was a tentmaker, so they had other jobs. Some will sadly never make the decision to follow Christ. And Im 49, a loudmouth, professionally trained in safeguarding& so on. The couple was hitched in 1974. For further flow of events, see I, Claudius, Dune, and Game of Thrones. They said they could look him in the eye and discern if he was telling the truth.. Abuse works on the good-hearted the ones who are trying to give others the benefit of the doubt, questioning their own discernment, seeking to extend charity. Read reviews from world's largest community for readers. Dont confuse the two. Then I started questioning that after quite a few! But I now see how he used his relationship with me as a shield, both during and after our marriage, so no one would question his relationships with other women or scrutinize his writing as anything other than feminist. WITCHES! And its worse for Christian rocks stars, because nobody spiritualizes your regular rock band, and expects them to be perfect. It was alleged in an article of 'Chicago Tribune.' Further, the Chicago Tribune and Christianity Today too reported allegations about his misconduct. He needs nothing, needs none of us, but He loves us and makes us a part of His plan. The plastic fish on the car in the church parking lot purchased at the church gift store. Wonder who taught Billy to dress like a leader. It was always funny to me (sad really) how when Bill Hybels prayed for/about something no matter what it was, that according to Hybels God always answered him immediately or within days. 1 comment about arms The strength and impact of Nancy Beachs and Vonda Dyers words remain, thankfully. *Bill also admitted that the woman alleging an affair had spent many nights at the Hybels home when Lynne was out of town.* (from the Nancy Ortberg post). Its so clear how this happened on the womens part. Or they adapted. And what is important here is that authoritarian control, often gained through emotional, spiritual and or sexual abuse is frequently used to establish control and enable institutions to achieve whatever it is their true agendas are. This makes my blood boil. And Jesus does not need Willow Creek. Just wonderin. No one wants to think their pastor is being inappropriate, so your brain just dismisses it. Read the Bible Dee. That is a mistake. WTF? Because I handled it in the moment (As she did with her push away response to Hybels) And it worked. I do, however, see how the dastardly could try and use the physical emotional responses to size up or groom a potential victim. Bigger news story is the Humbolt bus crash. The fact that people post here and not just give up on the church and Christainty gives me great comfort the NT clearly warns of false profits amoung the brethern and clearly teaches we should have qualified leaders. Ill assume you mean well and are somewhere back in that stage where youre still denying. @ okrapod: @ Nancy2 (aka Kevlar): I bought pants, shirts, belts and sweaters and you picked what you wanted and paid me for those items. And I admit to being raised that public displays of affection between adults was not the best as it might make some uncomfortable. Rather, I think it is their twisted view of both God and humanity. unteachable. I agree. Try to respond like Jesus might and you will be let through. For you cross land and sea to make a single convert, only to turn him into twice the Child of Hell as yourselves! You be the Mugu; I be the Master! If it is impossible for the man to keep his hands to himself, then it is the responsibility of the women to activate their own tell-the-difference perception and act accordingly. That this has to be explained in The Church is unbelievable. Its not the victim. It is about following a Rabbi who was despised and mocked and sent to the Cross. Most of these people have no clue they are in a thought reform situation until they get very far away from it. I asked my mom once why she endured physical abuse so long from my father, and she gave me similar answers. I try to look for the patterns and tactics of the perps and their enablers. At what point did Nancy inform her husband? The term sometimes used is secure email. These people have patience for the long con. Ok. Just without a Christianese coat of paint. That said, I am still very thankful for the work of Willow Creek. Hint hint. I hope you are right about this. And while Hybels coached men to abide by the so-called "Billy Graham rule"never being alone with a women he was not married tohe often broke that rule, according to the Tribune. But I can certainly tell when a guy does it to cop a feel. As with many couples, there were times we couldn't imagine making it through another year, let alone another decade or two. So, as with what apparently happened at Willow Creek Church and Bill Hybels having his emails removed, that wasnt really a great idea. You also wonder what other people might think of you if you mention it. Ambien or the Devil it is always Something/one Elses Fault. Activism. Betty Schmidt gave 5 specific ways the current Willow Creek elders have misquoted and misrepresented her. Uh oh..then we are in trouble. there will be a pendulum swing away from megachurches. Bill Hybels is a legendary figure in the world of business. No. She bears serious emotional scars to this day, several decades later. That statement should never have been sent out and hasnt been corrected to this day! We still need to get together on that religious research thingie. Ok. ", © 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - The Wartburg Watch. Sexual predation is not based on *wanting to have sex. They wouldnt have been good enough speakers. Harvey was condemned by Hollywood while Bill received the proverbial Standing O, I had to read this twice. Every dept, every spin off ministry, with line item salaries. Listen to yourself, Brad! How does one explain it? So sad. He told me to sit down and put my feet up. he did so because there were problems and he knew more would come. WC is Hybels no matter how much they protest. Is that structure really the best way to know Christ? But it is even harder when those left behind form a militia to hunt down and fire at anyone who dares to question the paradigm. He is the founding and former senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Illinois, one of the most attended churches in North America, with an average attendance of nearly 24,000 as of late 2018. . Remember Bill hybels stepped down. As we got up to leave at the end of the evening Bill said to me in front of the group, Nancy why dont you stay for a couple of minutes for us to discuss your ministry work? I immediately looked at the others for how I should respond and one of them smiled and said, Okay, see you in the morning.. Im particularly disgusted by They said they could look him in the eye and discern if he was telling the truth.. is lynne hybels still married to bill. Be at peace. Nor will Christians abandon their faith en masse over this. I assume you mean well. I am going to assume this women does not know how business is conducted these days. if one has enough of those there seems to be a scale to weigh behaviors against. So sad that we are talking about this within the context of the pulpit! Note: Nancy Ortberg served as a teaching pastor for eight years at Willow Creek Community Church. She was running with him outside. But if you read Jodies clever rant, take ortberg name out of the picture and just think about what the culture was like there. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bKkOke2noyc The comments we disallow often have to do with abuse of victims along with some other things. Make it easy for women (or their husbands, boyfriends) to provide information. 1. Salvation: in the ned this in the hands of the One with the higher Pay Grade. Rats gnawing cables in two; They also have two children together, whose name we don't know. A few years ago, I posted The Aurora byTerjeSorgjerd. Is it even possible that one leads to the other, as the power dynamic created by abuse is addictive? Some until their death beds. He did so for a reason and it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. Wow!!! The Old Lutheran website has a bunch of shirts and coffee mugs with the word saint on one side and sinner on the others. So sad. Whew, those poor WC members have been exposed to some characters! There are some 20 gifts mentioned in Scripture (Romans 12, Ephesians 4, 1 Corinthians 1213). Hybels et al have it backwards. All about leadership, leadership, leadership. And I go back to one of my earlier assertions about celebrity. Not every Christian is called to be an evangelist, but every Christian should have a heart for the lost. I can assure her that never once was I assaulted, harassed etc. Unfortunately, this particular scandal not only impacts specific Willow Creek pastors or employees it impacts the body of Christ and the thousands of people seeking to know Jesus. We are most certainly called to make judgements on actions. Hybel's father was an entrepreneur in wholesale produce whose work ethic was the model for his son. I believe God will welcome Bill into heaven with open arms for the positive work he has done. I looked down at the author. I, like so many others a tragic victim of corrupted Christianity. He was once featured in a Christian magazine. teaching other churches how to impliment the Williow Creek model. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. Brad Brucker wrote: . Thats a laugh. A year later they started Willow Creek Community Church. A cheap way to expand. Thats only whats been reported. How many church leaders are not of His sheep ? Hybels retired early from Willow Creek in 2018 after he was accused by several women, who worked for or attended the church, of sexual misconduct stretching back more than 20 years. This is a serious question we all need to ask ourselves about our own churches. Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. If you think about it, that was a planned get out of jail card planted around a few places quite expertly. I am absolutely sickened by this situation. While WW can be messy, I think most poster here just want honesty, transparacy, and protection/respect of the weaker ones. Hence, I like Brad Futurist guys work, though I do find it sometimes too intellectual for me! Well said, Betty! The sheer resources at these (mostly) mens disposal. How long are you going to allow Satan to control your actions? In a Facebook post shared over the weekend, a church member accused Dr. B. of kissing, fondling, and pressuring her with sex between 1984 and 1988. Our job is to call. Terrible, terrible thing. And it is *by design*! It would seem somewhat of a legal issue to go around wiping documents and videos, no? . i.e. Lynne Hybels was born on 21st November 1951. I wonder when the above reproach inspectors will engage and be welcome with open arms; they may want to hurry, as its reached the secular media, and theyre not too focused on 1 Peter 4:8. As it says in the bible, Who are we to judge? There is a legal concept called spoliation of evidence, which refers to the destruction or withholding of evidence whether done intentionally or accidentally. Open Discussion Page. Little children they say do not like to be hugged by the old people so I dont do it. The man who assaulted me regularly made passes at women in public. This is largely Christianese. There is your real problem, right there. There are too many similarities between their stories. We are as busy as they; And, no, it does not minimize their words concerning what Bill Hybels has done. Very valuable comment. Like you, quite a few of us have spent years studying it deeply. there was nothing inappropriate about Bill trying to guide your whole self as an up and coming leader. I dont like people hugging me. Married: Spouse: Lynne Hybels (m. 1974) Son/Daughter: Yes (Shauna Niequist and Todd Hybels) Earning: $95,000 . Below, what to know about the Bill Hybels scandal. Ok, gotcha. Yep. Please read what I, a former elder, wrote. So, why were Hybels emails so important that they had to be deleted? I mean, most say they want the truth. Interesting, as it goes after comments (he said bad words) and some situations, offering a perspective, all engineered to shape the perspective regarding Hybels. Is it possible that Bill Hybels encouraged the leadership of women in order to increase his own access to women who admired him within the confines of church business, giving him plausible deniability? At one mega, the pastors alleged other woman was the missions director. Indeed. Bill Hybels confessed a few years ago that WC had made a mistake by not encouraging church members to read their Bibles and mature spiritually. Honest to Pete until this very discussion I thought that this was just the way that decent people behave. 1 comment deleted. its all changed. I think I said in another thread, there are hugs and there are hugs and we can generally tell the difference. The people there sold out to it will protect it at all costs. I think I said in another thread, there are hugs and there are hugs and we can generally tell the difference. Or is this site simply about wholesale condemnation. This video was shot in and aroundKirkenesand Pas National Park bordering Russia, at 70 degree north and 30 degrees east. Joss Whedon Is a Hypocrite Preaching Feminist Ideals, according to his ex-wife Kai Cole in her guest post on *The Wrap*. Or even an outlier, if need be. So call the best pastor you can, but the best pastor is the most Christ-like, not the most TV-ready. How many times do you think it needs to be posted? Theres much interesting reading on the Donald MacLeod thread, including this 1988 quote posted Thursday by Malcolm, from Mr James Fraser: his response failed to allay my fears that there was some truth in the allegations. Lynne was picked for a spot on President Barack Obama's President's Advisory Council on . Why? We sat under their leadership at Willow Creek for several years and were sad when the Ortbergs left to California. Well, to show you how prophetic I am, I predicted years ago that most mega churches would be car lots or community centers by now. You will be swamped with Williow Creek and Bill Hybels telling us how to and their morality. At the end of the three-day conference a small group of us joined Bill in his hotel room to celebrate a birthday and the conference. I understand the victim mentality, I have been a victim, but his repentance has little to do with the womens healing. Second guessing somebodys way of dealing with their own spouse is usually really wrong. Religious, but spiritually destitute. Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. Some people left, but our church has been transformed. I mean, one post here put Hybels name next to Weinstiens. The whole manipulation tactic is a brain gamer based upon the receivers cognitive dissonance. Very sad. If any Pastor asked me to have a private, evening chat about leadership I would have looked like a leaf trembling in the wind. - More of my thoughts here: http://www.divorceminister.com/nancy-ortberg-shares-her-side-rebill-hybels-allegations/. No one. @ truthseeker00: Take look at what Paul says about this immoral situation. 1 kiss Dee, is Julie a new commenter here? And my guess is the elders dont know either. I do. And a pedestal they can fall from and did. Steve Carter (Hybels hand picked teaching padtor) does not have the best reputation either. He was talking about how successful Sociopaths and Swindlers and Abusers are masters of Camouflage (and Misdirection)! A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. He then shared unfiltered thoughts about me, describing in great detail specific parts of my body he liked, and said he thought I was effusive, sexy and had great candor, mentioned what a promising leader I was, and he said. Hint hint. This stemmed from a Gospel of Personal Salvation and ONLY Personal Salvation (everything else was All Gonna Burn) where the only thing God would ask on J-Day was How Many Souls Did YOU Save? and the numbers in your sales record would be all that determined your position and rank in Heaven. Will the clay say to the potter, What are you doing? Or the thing you are making say, He has no hands ? Isaiah 45:9. https://cryingoutforjustice.com/2018/03/01/for-professionals-who-work-in-domesic-abuse-dv/. The Devil is destroying yet another church. And he could also use the Ambien thing to slander Vonda if she publicly complained about the way he had treated her that night. not for this long. So thats why I was interested in this concept. When youre the victim of something creepy, such as abuse, suggestive sexual behavior or private narcissistic rage or whatever ugly thing from a pastor who holds himself up as a paragon of virtue, people often feel embarrassed at having been involved in it, even if they had nothing to do with the wrongful actions. I read it Daily and Journal too. Its harder to sweep things under the rug when internet on-lookers are looking under rugs 24-7. kwim, dees? I get it bothers you. And it still doesnt negate what Bill Hybels did, even if it were to be true. Ok, So Nancy Ortberg was fondled, hugged, touched. What I count is as follows: (Source: https://vondadyer.weebly.com/blog/vonda-dyers-statement-re-chicago-tribune-and-bill-hybels). Its what someone mentioned in another thread about 75% of people go along with whatever to be accepted. @ Law Prof: Look for similarities with the other victims testimonies. Like they say, to each his own. I dont understand the purpose!!!!! I get Im not welcome here. Got any other people of substance who would vouch for you? Of course Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus. He just got knocked off his pedestal and some of his supporters are throwing up their hands in despair. Is it even possible that one leads to the other, as the power dynamic created by abuse is addictive? Two publishers suspend publication of books by megachurch pastor Hybels in wake of misconduct allegations Tyndale House Publishers InterVarsity Press (Chicago Tribune). I guess you are not aware of the president for whom Hybels was a spiritual advisor. I dont think Jesus sees things the same way they do. He was the it guy on leadership in those circles for some reason. Its not a numbers game, its not like worldly sales with rainmakers and marketing and big hits. psychology today says that When we hug or kiss a loved one, oxytocin levels increase; hence, oxytocin is often called the love hormone.. @ Barbara Roberts: If interested, I posted more material, links, analysis, and some leads to Dan Brennans thoughts on anxious egalitarianism, on this article: https://futuristguy.wordpress.com/2018/04/12/some-thoughts-on-supposedly-feminist-men-who-reportedly-abuse-harass-women/. The first half of the book, written by Lynne Hybels, explores the early years of Willow Creek and the personal accounts behind one of this century's most . But if you read Jodies clever rant, take ortberg name out of the picture and just think about what the culture was like there. Timing is interesting. So many perps being exposed it looks like the Lord is behind the exposure. It is hard enough fighting rampant sex abuse in churches. A former minister of mine would give the teenage girl side hugs, which put his hand in a place it shouldnt have been. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. So both Nancy Ortberg and her husband wonderful teaching pastors stayed on the staff later resigned to pastor in California. The issue with that is that its not like the secular world, in which after perps have done their time, they can make a living in their field of avocation (though in the case of fraud perpetrators and/or crimes with victims, future funds may be diverted to said victims). And expects them to be perfect be perfect in those circles for is lynne hybels still married to bill.. Hands of the weaker ones I think I said in another thread about %. Based upon the receivers cognitive dissonance think of all this Shauna Niequist and Todd Hybels ) and it an. To the cross I try to respond like Jesus might and you will be saying something clearly to him asking... 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